EPS. 16 You Don't Have to be the Perfect Mom: How to Raise Confident Kids without Burnout - Transcript
Episode 16: You Don't Have to Be the Perfect Mom: How to Raise Confident Kids without Burnout - Transcript
[00:04] Christi Gmyr: Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs, the podcast for burned out, career-minded moms who are ready to stop pretending everything's fine and feel like themselves again.
[00:15] I'm your host, Christi Gmyr, burnout coach for moms, licensed therapist and mom of two. And I'm here to help you reclaim your energy, your identity, and your peace of mind.
[00:25] Whether you're lying awake thinking about the 87 things you didn't get done or silently resenting the people you love most,
[00:32] This is your space to feel seen, supported, and not so alone.
[00:36] So grab your coffee, hot, cold or day old, and let's get into it.
[00:48] Hey everybody, it's Christi.
[00:50] Welcome to Overcaffeinated and Out of Effs.
[00:53] In today's episode, I'd like to welcome our guest, Kasey Edwards.
[00:57] Kasey is the best selling author of 10 books including Raising Girls who Like Themselves and Bringing Up Boys who Like Themselves.
[01:06] She mixes credible research,
[01:08] humor and heart to write about issues such as self worth, raising children, work satisfaction,
[01:14] motherhood and body image. She has a wide readership with an audience of over 10 million and is a passionate champion for women and children.
[01:24] So I've invited Kasey here today because I hoping that she's going to talk a little bit about conditioning. Specifically how good girl and tough boy conditioning leaves both moms and kids feeling depleted.
[01:37] Why moms don't need to do more for their children, but instead to focus on small mindset shifts that free everyone from constant striving. I'm also hoping that she's going to share some practical evidence based strategies to raise kids who do like themselves while giving moms permission to reclaim their own sense of worth and rest.
[01:57] So, Kasey, thank you so much for being here today.
[02:01] Kasey Edwards: Christi, it is my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
[02:04] Christi Gmyr: Yes, of course. I'm so excited about our conversation.
[02:07] Do you mind by maybe starting out and just telling us a little bit about yourself and like, and what led you to write your book?
[02:14] Kasey Edwards: Yes, of course. So I am a writer and a researcher and 16 years ago I became the parent of a daughter.
[02:26] So my husband is also a researcher, Dr. Christopher Scanlon.
[02:30] And when our daughter Violet was born,
02:33] we were both like most parents, just overwhelmed with this enormous sense of inadequacy.
[02:39] We just did not know how to be the parents that we thought our daughter deserved. [02:45] And for me, Christi,
[02:47] it was.
[02:48] It was so deep within me. What I wanted for my daughter and what it was is I wanted her to grow up liking herself more than I did when I was growing up.
[03:00] And that's what I wanted for her, because I carried this sense of inadequacy through my childhood into,
[03:07] you know, being an adult. And I saw women around me as well, who never felt like they were good enough.
[03:14] And I didn't want that for her. But I didn't know how to fix that because I thought, well, if I raise her how I was raised, then she's going to be as insecure as me.
[03:24] So Chris and I are researchers. We were able to call up the world's leading experts. We had access to all the academic research and all the books. So for our own benefit, it was a 10 year project.
[03:37] We did our own research on how to raise our daughter to like herself.
[03:44] Because the thing, Christi, about raising children to like themselves is that absolutely everything,
[03:50] everything that you hope and dream for them becomes easier when they like themselves. Right?
[03:57] That was the primary goal.
[03:59] And then one day I was at a party and I was talking about my recent research, and a friend, another mom, said to me, I don't have time to read all of that.
[04:07] Will you just tell me what I have to do?
[04:11] And because the other thing is that,
[04:15] so like you, Christi,
[04:17] we don't have family support around us.
[04:20] And when was born, we had very few friends who had kids, so it was just Chris and me. We were doing it all on our own.
[04:27] And a lot of the parenting books made us feel really bad because the list of things that you supposed to do to be a good enough parent was so long and impossible.
[04:36] So what we wanted to do with our research was, first of all, make sure that everything is evidence based. There's no opinion, there's no I reckons in there.
[04:45] And every single thing that we write about in our two books, raising girls and bringing up boys, we have implemented in our own imperfect,
[04:56] Christi Gmyr: That is amazing. And I, and I hear what you're saying because I absolutely think that this is something that so many moms do struggle with is a sense of inadequacy and things like that.
[05:04] And,
[05:05] you know, and I do think a lot of that comes from conditioning society and whatnot. But I really love how you are looking at it from, okay, so what can we do?
[05:16] What can we do differently to help our kids so that, so that they're not going to experience the same thing. But then also when we do that, how is that not just going to benefit them, but how is that going to benefit us as parents as well?
[05:28] So that, that's amazing. [05:30] So, and you talk a little bit about, you know, good girl and tough boy conditioning and how that drains both mom and kids.
[05:38] And can you just say a little bit more about that and what that looks like?
[05:41] Kasey Edwards: So I should say so. We first wrote raising girls who like themselves.
[05:45] And then as soon as that came out, people said, well, what about boys shouldn't like they like themselves too. So we then wrote bringing up boys who like themselves. And because we aren't the parents of boys, we have two girls,
[05:57] we surveyed 15,000 parents to find out what their biggest concerns were about raising boys. And then we did our research on from that.
[06:09] So when I talk about good girls and tough boys,
[06:13] we're talking about the social expectation that is placed on children and on how we as mums should be raising them.
[06:24] So very quickly,
[06:28] almost everything that we teach a girl to be good is teaching her to defer to an external measure of worth.
[06:39] So a good girl is beautiful and skinny.
[06:43] Well, beauty is an external measure.
[06:46] Someone else bestows it on you and they just as quickly take it away.
[06:51] Christi Gmyr: Right.
[06:51] Kasey Edwards: We also know that, you know, the standards of beauty are so high that you can't ever reach them.
[06:58] So we are setting them up to be insecure.
[07:00] A good girl also has to give more love than she receives.
[07:07] So you measure yourself by the how other people feel about you, by, by pleasing other people. You're a good girl gets the, the marks on the test and the number on the scale and the perfectionist.
[07:22] So all these things that we, we teach our girls are external. And if you rely on external measures for your worth, you are by insecure.
[07:33] Insecure. [07:34] And so what we see is by the age of 10,
[07:36] girls can become acutely aware of how other people feel about them, about them and think about them.
[07:42] And that's when parents go, I don't know where it came from.
[07:46] Like she's, she cares so much, she's so worried about other people. [07:50] But in many ways, we actually have been training girls,
[07:54] good girls, to be insecure their whole life.
[07:57] And just a really, a couple of quick examples of that is when we tell our girls that she can't wear something,
[08:05] we're telling her that what I think about how you look is more important than what you think.
[08:13] When we force our children to give affection when they don't want to, and that's a really important point there. When they don't want,
[08:21] we are them that what someone else wants them to do with their body is more important than what they want to do with their body.
[08:28] When a child comes to us asking us for praise and your kids are going to come to you 6,000 times to ask you, do you like my drawing? Do you like my somersault?
[08:40] Or whatever.
[08:41] Christi Gmyr: Right.
[08:43] Kasey Edwards: What we're saying to them is our opinion about what they've done is more important than what, than their opinion.
[08:51] And so just we were talking about, you mentioned practical strategies.
[08:55] One really practical strategy is called flipping praise.
[08:59] And no more, no more time,
[09:01] right? They're going to come,
[09:03] right? Do you like my somersault or do you like my drawing?
[09:07] And you say,
[09:09] well, it's your drawing and your opinion matters the most. So I'm really interested in what you think.
[09:17] And if you do that over and over again,
[09:19] you teach your child that they get to decide if they're good and if they're worthy rather than constantly deferring to someone else.
[09:30] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. And I, and I love that. And I really loved what you were talking. And I do feel like this is something that you are. That we're seeing more people talk about.
[09:38] In the example that you shared with,
[09:40] you know, giving people affection when they don't necessarily feel comfortable or don't necessarily want to, versus is it something that they do want to do? You know, all these examples are really great, but that one stands out to me in particular, just because I feel like I'm, I'm hearing more people sort of comment about that and why they do think that that's really important,
[09:59] just with teaching boundaries and things like that. But I,
[10:02] I love how you really sort of focus on this idea of just what do they think internally validating themselves versus having that external validation. Because that's something that at the end of the day, they always have control of.
[10:14] And also,
[10:15] all of these things are opinions, right? And at the end of the day, opinions are not going to be the same. And so, yeah, it makes sense that their opinion is the one that's really.
[10:22] Kasey Edwards: Going to matter the most because, like, when they're young, we have their best interests at heart, right into the world, they're going to face people who don't.
[10:33] So we can't teach them to let someone else decide their worth. They
have to decide that for themselves. So if they like their drawing, you then follow up with, that's great.
[10:41] It's your work, so your opinion matters most.
[10:44] If they don't like it, then you say, well, what would you like to do differently next time?
[10:49] What should we work on?
[10:51] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And so I, and I imagine that that's going to be quite a bit of a shift for a lot of people, you know, because as parents, we are.
[11:02] We're always trying to do our best by our kids. We're always trying to learn and improve and do things differently.
[11:08] And,
[11:09] you know,
[11:10] the listeners on this podcast are a lot of parents, particularly moms, who are feeling really burned out. And a lot of them are, you know,
[11:18] feeling exhausted and burned out because they're constantly putting pressure on themselves to do more of everything for their kids to,
[11:27] you know, to always be just.
[11:29] You mentioned perfection before, right? To be that perfect parent. And so why do you believe that moms don't need to do that?
[11:36] Kasey Edwards: Okay,
[11:38] so for a couple of reasons,
[11:41] when we did our research on raising children to like themselves, girls and boys, we came up with seven foundation pillars.
[11:49] That you get these pillars right, then your child's going to be ready for anything.
[11:54] Because we don't know what the future is going to hold. Right? We can't prepare them for, predict it. So we need to give them a sturdy foundation so they can weather the storms of life and soar to reach their potential.
[12:06] And one of those pillars for both boys and girls is mastery and independence.
[12:14] Self esteem.
[12:15] You would know this through your work, Christi. It doesn't come from word presence. It doesn't come from telling your kids over and over again that they're awesome.
[12:23] In fact, that actually can reduce their self esteem.
[12:26] Self esteem comes from your children having the skills to do life and knowing that they can handle things.
[12:33] And that is a real shift from the expectations that are placed on mums.
[12:38] Because moms, we are told that a good mom creates perfect childhoods where children are never upset, they never struggle,
[12:47] they're always happy.
[12:49] And so what we can do, and I absolutely did this with my first daughter,
[12:54] I tried to build my own self worth by my daughter's self worth.
[13:02] And I'll give you an example of the difference between raising my two daughters. So my first daughter in the playground,
[13:11] when she would go up to a climbing frame and she couldn't do it and she'd get upset,
[13:16] I would run over, I'd hover, and I'd pick her up to the point where she would just walk over to any piece of equipment and hold her arms up and expect me to come and pick her up.
[13:28] And I had taught her to be helpless.
[13:30] I had also created a role for myself that I always had to be present.
[13:36] And then when my second daughter came along, this is after I had done all the research about so self worth,
[13:43] and I realized that I was robbing my daughter of mastery and independence.
[13:49] Ivy, my second daughter, she was in charge of her own playground goals. Like,
[13:53] she climbed the climbing frame, she had to do it herself.
[13:57] And there were times when she was frustrated, and I talked to her about it, how it was really frustrating, and what else could she try?
[14:05] And then one day, she climbed the climbing frame by herself.
[14:10] And the look of pride and satisfaction on her face,
[14:14] I could not have given it to her.
[14:17] I couldn't have bought it for her.
[14:19] You can't unwrap it.
[14:21] That only comes from independence and from mastery.
[14:26] And I realized that every time I rushed in and stopped my daughter, my first daughter, from struggling, creating all this extra work and pressure for myself,
[14:36] I was denying her that mastery and independence and self worth that my other daughter was getting.
[14:43] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, and I, and I completely agree with you. And I think that you're right. Like, that's something that a lot of moms do struggle with, because we don't. Nobody wants to see their kids suffering.
[14:52] Nobody wants to see their kids struggling or having a hard time or feeling sad or hurt or anything like that.
[14:58] But at the same time, like, those things are if, if we have the appropriate. Like if we have the proper tools and skills, like, we can manage those things, we can get through those things.
[15:08] Right? But we have to. We have to learn how to do it.
[15:11] And so, yeah, there's that. There can be this strong desire to rescue and save our kids from all of these challenging situations. But to your point,
[15:20] they need to be able to experience those things, to be able to learn how to navigate those things themselves and to also see that when they go through a challenging time, that.
[15:29] Or when they're feeling badly for some reason, that they will get through it and they will be okay and they can come off the other side and continue to move forward.
[15:37] So I think that, that I agree with you a hundred percent,
[15:41] but I do think that's something we struggle with.
[15:43] Kasey Edwards: It's a mind shift. Like, our job is not to create perfect childhood.
[15:48] Our job is to raise children who don't need us.
[15:52] And so we want functioning adults.
[15:55] And the rule that we have, and we talked about in our books and on. In our. Our seminars is only do for your children what you. They cannot do for themselves.
[16:07] Christi Gmyr: Okay. Okay. Well, and again, and when you talk about, like, you know, what is the goal? The goal is to raise, you know, these functioning adults who can live their lives independently.
[16:17] You know,
[16:18] that is, you know, I think that that's another important thing to pay attention to. And what maybe when people are struggling or having a hard time is going back to,
[16:25] what is the goal? What is it that I am ultimately trying to accomplish. You talk about the goal is not trying to,
[16:30] you know, give them these perfect childhoods. And the reality is, you know, I talk about this a lot, is that perfection does not exist. You know, and when we're striving to always be perfect, to give our kids that perfect childhood or whatever it might be,
[16:43] we're setting the bar up like really, really high and we're setting these unreasonable, unrealistic standards. And in this case what you're describing, that's not even the goal. The goal isn't, like you said, to even have that perfection, even if it did exist,
[16:56] because they need to someday they're going to hopefully spread their wings and,
[17:00] and leave. And they have to be able to have the skills to be able to do that.
[17:04] Kasey Edwards: And they have to tolerate discomfort.
[17:07] That is the difference between an adult that struggles and an adult that thrives.
[17:14] And that means that we, sometimes we just have to step back and let our children experience the consequences of their behavior and their decisions.
[17:24] Christi Gmyr: Well, and the other thing about that is, you know,
[17:27] discomfort,
[17:28] obviously nobody ever wants to be uncomfortable, right? It's not pleasant, it's not enjoyable,
[17:34] but it's also, it's not unsafe. Right. And that's another thing. I think a lot of times we confuse things that we,
[17:42] you know, we sort of tell ourselves that this is something that we can't tolerate, that we can't deal with it and therefore we need to avoid it at all costs.
[17:50] And that's just not the case. Like discomfort is something that we can get through again as long as we have the appropriate skills and tools. And those things are all learned.
[17:59] Kasey Edwards: So yeah,
[18:01] and Sophie, you've only talked about girls, but one of the things, one of the big problems that we're seeing in boys is people talk about my son is lazy.
[18:09] Now there is no such thing as a male laziness gene.
[18:13] And often what we see as appearing lazy in boys is,
[18:19] is their fear of, of, of discomfort.
[18:24] They haven't tolerated it before,
[18:27] doubt.
[18:28] So they, because they're so scared of feeling discomfort. And we know that again, particularly with boys,
[18:35] that if boys do not know how to fail and do not know that they are able to feel discomfort, they will not reach their potential.
[18:45] Because in order to reach your potential, your academic potential at school,
[18:49] you require negative feedback that doesn't feel good.
[18:54] That is reality.
[18:56] And so when boys can't handle it,
[18:59] they opt.
[19:01] Christi Gmyr: So I have a question for you then in terms of. So I have a five year old boy and he is,
[19:07] and I've Heard a lot of other people can relate to this. You know, he is one of those kids who at home,
[19:13] he loves to do all the things. He loves to play soccer, he loves to play basketball, he loves to dance, he loves to do all of the swim, all of these things.
[19:20] But for the longest time, the minute we sign him up for activities, activities that he asks us to sign him up for, he says he wants to do them.
[19:28] And then he shows up and he refuses to get on the field. He refuses to participate. And it's so stressful and not to say. And in the, at the end of the day, like we just can't get him on the field.
[19:40] We literally cannot,
[19:42] can't force him to get on the field. And in my opinion, I mean, obviously he's five and I actually am starting to see that behavior change a little bit now that he's getting a little bit older.
[19:52] But how do you encourage kids to,
[19:55] to allow themselves
to be in a situation that is uncomfortable?
[20:00] Kasey Edwards: Yeah. Well, particularly for boys,
[20:03] they need to sit, see other men fail and be okay.
[20:10] So many boys have never seen a man struggle because men are raised to tough. Men don't show weakness. Right.
[20:20] Boys don't see their dads apologize. They don't see their dads talk about making mistakes.
[20:25] So that's the first thing they need to normalize and celebrate. Tell the,
[20:30] tell the story. The failing. Well, story of when I did something, it didn't work out, I was really upset, set. Then I picked myself up and I learned and I did this better.
[20:40] Like those stories need to be talked about in your house all the time.
[20:45] Another thing with boys is,
[20:48] and girls as well, because while boys tend to go the laziness route, the girls go the anxiety and perfectionist route.
[20:55] Focus always,
[20:57] always on the process rather than the outcome.
[21:02] So it's,
[21:03] it's the showing up,
[21:05] it's the going on the field. It's not the kicking, the goal or scoring or whatever.
[21:11] And so all of our praise should be process focused. That is something children can replicate and succeed at any time.
[21:19] But something to think about, Kristy, given that your child is only five, is when your child is doing the things at home.
[21:28] That's play.
[21:29] Because play is child led,
[21:33] non competitive,
[21:36] creative, and it is safe for him to explore different areas of his personality and different things.
[21:42] A structured activity is not play. Even if your child really likes it. It is not play. It is adult led.
[21:49] It is measured. It has an outcome and the stakes are high.
[21:55] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, that, that all makes, that, that, that all makes a lot of sense, you know, and I. Yeah, and I appreciate, you know, you talking about that, you know, and so obviously we're talking a lot about right now kids and how to help them and.
[22:08] And so that they can feel more confident and whatnot. I'm also curious about the parents. Right. Because again, a lot of the listeners are moms, and not only are they wanting what's best for their kids, but also we're wanting to support them and taking care of themselves, you know,
[22:23] and so when we're able to help our kids like them, you know, feel good about themselves, like themselves better,
[22:30] how do you find that that ultimately spills over and affects the mom and helps her feel better and helps her feel less stressed.
[22:40] Kasey Edwards: It changes everything.
[22:42] When your child likes themself,
[22:45] so much of the tension in the family will just disappear.
[22:49] The communication channels will open up.
[22:51] And so at. One of the biggest things that creates stress and tension in families is we call it the difference between stone parenting and seed parenting.
[23:05] So stone parenting is the idea that we. We've decided what the perfect child looks like,
[23:11] whether it be from society, from church, from family. You know, you've worked out what your kid needs to be to be a success,
[23:19] and then you put all your effort into chiseling away and making this perfect child.
[23:28] But the thing is that your child will never like themselves if they don't get to decide who they are.
[23:36] And what happens is there's this constant tension within families, constant nagging, constant pushback, because you're trying to create a child that you don't have.
[23:47] So instead, shift. We recommend shifting your focus to seed parenting. And that is that your child is this beautiful, unique seed.
[23:57] You don't know how they're going to bloom. You don't know when they're going to bloom. That's not your job.
[24:03] You don't need to worry about that.
[24:05] Your job is to provide the safe, secure, loving, supportive environment and then to set step back in wonder and watch your child bloom, rather than trying to force your sunflower into a rose.
[24:22] And once you do that as a parent, a lot of the points of conflict just disappear.
[24:29] And then your child can grow into the best version of the person that they choose to be.
[24:36] Christi Gmyr: I imagine that's really tricky for a lot of parents. Oh, that's tricky.
[24:40] Kasey Edwards: And I think the thing is, something we don't talk about often is that there is grief in parenting because we have an idea of what our child's going to be and if they come out really different from that, like, if you want the Sporty child and you've got a kid who can't catch a ball,
[24:56] or you want the academic child who is struggling. Like, it can be really hard for parents,
[25:02] but that is our work to do. We need to do that breeze, that grieving,
[25:07] so we can love the child that we have, not the one we thought we were going to get.
[25:12] And so many problems,
[25:16] little things about parenting disappear if you love and value the child that you have in front of you for who they are in this moment,
[25:27] that they don't have to win a race to feel love, they don't have to pass the test, they don't have to lose weight, they don't have to hang out with the popular kids that you reflect back to them in this moment that they are already loved and accepted and enough.
[25:42] Christi Gmyr: Well, and you talk about, you know, giving up this idea or, you know, grieving,
[25:46] you know, this. The child that may be the perfect child that you were initially imagining or thinking about and letting go of that idea. Why do you think it's important to let go of the idea of being the perfect mom and to so and to show up more authentically?
[26:01] Kasey Edwards: Yeah. Well, look,
[26:03] there's two reasons. And the first one is the one that's always given.
[26:07] And I think it is the least important,
[26:10] the reason when we model perfectionism, you know, it's, our children are watching.
[26:16] We don't want them to carry that burden into their own life.
[26:19] Christi Gmyr: Right.
[26:20] Kasey Edwards: But the other thing is that we are valuable people in our own right.
[26:28] Like, we should let go because we deserve it.
[26:33] Like, our whole conditioning is that our worth is based on serving others, and we just have to stop that. That is the belief that we need to change our time,
[26:44] our opinions,
[26:45] our feelings, our hopes and dreams are just as valid and valuable as everyone else in the family.
[26:54] Christi Gmyr: Absolutely.
[26:55] 100%.
[26:56] Yeah. I mean, I couldn't have said that better.
[26:59] So. And I. And I love that we're talking about this today, because I do believe, and this is one of the things that I've said a lot, is that,
[27:06] you know, a lot of the things that we struggle with as moms, as parents does. It does stem back to, you know, conditioning and the messages that we get from our parents, the messages we get from our peers, the messages we get in society.
[27:19] And a lot of those messages shift over time, you know, But I really love how you were talking more specifically about the conditioning, specifically the conditioning of our children, because again, we just,
[27:30] we're all, you know, we always want to do better. Right. I really believe that most People are always trying to, you know, do better than the generation before, you know, because that, you know,
[27:39] there are a lot of lessons to be learned.
[27:42] So. So this is, I feel like, has just been so great. So where people who want to learn more about this,
[27:48] you know, learn more about you, where can they go to find out more about you and your work?
[27:53] Kasey Edwards: So you can find me on Instagram at Kasey Edwards, writer,
[27:57] or my website, www.kaseyedwards.com but can I just leave you with one more strategy before we go? A really good strategy. So we call this one the giraffe.
[28:08] And this comes out of the pillar, which is the power perspective. And this is the idea that we cannot always control the event,
[28:15] what happens in our life, but we can control the way we respond to it.
[28:19] And one lesson that kids that,
[28:24] look, I use this lesson myself, we are taught that other people's opinions of us affect us, right?
[28:31] And so you might have a child that comes home and says, you know,
[28:35] Sally said, I'm a baby because I took my doll to school.
[28:39] And you might not know what to say in that moment, right?
[28:43] What we recommend is saying,
[28:45] if Sally said you were a giraffe, would that make you a giraffe?
[28:50] Now, a child as young as two knows they are not a giraffe,
[28:55] right?
[28:56] And follow up with,
[28:58] just because someone says something about you doesn't make it true.
[29:02] You get to decide who you are. That is your superpower. You are not a giraffe.
[29:08] And so that is the lesson that we have taught our girls their whole lives.
[29:13] And when my daughter was 10, she was coming home from school and she was telling me about her day, and she said all the girls at school said I was dumb.
[29:24] And in that moment, for me, it felt like a knife to my heart because I was back in that playground.
[29:29] But then she put her hands on her hips and went,
[29:32] so I'm going to have to sort that out tomorrow.
[29:37] And that response of that she is not a giraffe was because we taught her whole life she'd learned that she gets to decide who she is.
[29:49] So when these things happen, we can't protect our kids from these in the playground. They are inevitable, Right?
[29:55] We have to prepare them to withstand it.
[30:00] Christi Gmyr: Yeah. And that. And then that is so. And it's tricky, right? I mean, actually, as I'm listening to you talk, I'm thinking about an interaction I had with my son probably
just a week or two ago.
[30:09] Again, five years old,
[30:11] and he recently has been saying he wants to grow his hair out. You know, his older sister has long hair. And he was saying he wants to grow it out and wear it, like have it in a ponytail.
[30:21] And the other day he had us put it in this, the little bit of hair he has the tiny little thing in the top of his head. When he was at home over the weekend and he was so happy.
[30:31] And then he made this comment about how,
[30:35] how he, he still wants to grow his hair out. And he also said,
[30:39] and if I have, if I do that, if I put it in a ponytail, I'm never going to school again because all the kids will make fun of me. And I was just like, I was so like taken back by that comment.
[30:50] You know, at five years old, you know, he has this awareness that people do have opinions, you know,
[30:57] but again, kids do have opinions and kids are not always nice and little kids don't always have the coping skills, skills to be able to teach those things. So that is,
[31:06] I'm curious, like somebody who is that young, who hasn't maybe had the chance to develop those skills yet,
[31:11] what are your thoughts about, about that? I mean, is it the same idea with the giraffe?
[31:16] Kasey Edwards: So that is, that's like laying the groundwork, right?
[31:20] Teaching them that they get to decide who they are. What he also needs is a strategy for that moment.
[31:26] Okay, so research shows that the most effective way to stop mean comments,
[31:33] it's not telling your child to hit and that please do not tell your child to punch back. For a couple of reasons. One, it doesn't work, it makes the bullying worse.
[31:43] But secondly, we should not be encouraging our boys to do something as children which could put them in prison when they are older.
[31:50] Christi Gmyr: Right? Yes.
[31:52] Kasey Edwards: Instead, this is the most effective strategy for boys and girls.
[31:56] It is a clever comeback line and it is a short,
[32:02] sharp statement. It's not a question and it is not inflammatory. So if the teacher hears it, they're not going to get in trouble. Right?
[32:10] So it's a statement, lets the other child know that, I heard what you said and it's not okay.
[32:16] And this is the most effective strategy to reduce the severity and the likelihood of bullying or mean on purpose behavior happening again.
[32:26] And some examples are. So when my daughters were really young, it was like, stop it, I don't like it.
[32:34] And then it became, that was really mean.
[32:37] And then as my daughter got into the tween years, it was like, seriously.
[32:44] But the important thing is, is delivery.
[32:47] So chat with your son what his clever comeback line is and get him to practice it with you at home because it needs to come out of his mouth in the heat of the moment.
[32:58] And he needs to say it in his biggest big boy voice.
[33:02] And so I was working with a family just recently about this little boy. He was seven.
[33:07] And every day when he stood in the line to go into class, the boy in front of him would elbow him in the stomach.
[33:14] And because they had to stand in alphabetical order, so three times a day he was getting elbowed in the stomach.
[33:20] So his mum worked with him on his quick comeback line,
[33:25] his clever comeback line. And the first time he did it, the boy was shocked. And then at lunchtime, the boy did it again and he used his line and that was it.
[33:35] And the last I heard from the mother was that the boy was now being super nice to him.
[33:41] Christi Gmyr: That's amazing.
[33:42] That's amazing. Yeah. And I, and I love that,
[33:46] you know, it's, it's an effective strategy. And to your point that it doesn't encourage violence, I know that that can be another challenge for a lot of parents when they say my kid is being bullied.
[33:55] You know, we tried to, you know, we've encouraged them to go to the adults or whatever, and it's not stopping. And so as a last resort, maybe they are encouraging violence.
[34:03] And I'm with you. I always tell my kids that it's never acceptable to, to do that.
[34:07] And you make a really good point about, you know, their kids now and the consequences of that are maybe more minor, but what happens when they are adults and that's how that they learn to,
[34:17] to manage these situations, you know, So I love that, I love that strategy with the quick comeback lines of boys.
[34:24] Kasey Edwards: Often what we tell girls is ignore it.
[34:27] There is no dignity in ignoring someone treating you badly.
[34:32] It is really bad for your self worth. But also it tells the other person that that's okay, that you are tolerating it.
[34:40] So that's why we need to encourage our girls to stand up for themselves as well.
[34:44] Christi Gmyr: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that that's, that's amazing, you know, amazing advice. So this has all been really helpful. I feel like we could probably go on and on all day.
[34:53] I mean, I know that we've only been chatting for about 20 or 30 minutes, but I just feel like there has been so much. I can tell that you have so much more value even in addition to what you've already said, you know.
[35:03] So before we do kind of wrap up for today, I'm curious if there was one final piece of advice, one final message that you would leave about raising kids for these moms taking Care of themselves.
[35:15] What would that be?
[35:17] Kasey Edwards: Parent to your child's strengths, not their weaknesses.
[35:22] So as parents and just as human beings, we are focused on the negative, we're focused on the risks, we're focused on the threats. Right.
[35:30] So we spend so much time, for example, thinking about our child struggling with reading, but we're not thinking about that. He's really great on computers, for example.
[35:39] Christi Gmyr: Right.
[35:40] Kasey Edwards: And so what happens when we focus on our children's weaknesses is that our children then begin to define themselves on what they can't do rather than what they can do.
[35:51] And that affects their sense of self worth, their identity. And then everything at home becomes harder.
[35:58] And people often say to me, that's great, but my kid can't read. I don't have the luxury of not focusing on his. On his weakness.
[36:05] But the research shows that focusing mostly on your child's strengths is the best way to improve your child's weaknesses.
[36:15] And just with the reading example, take two children.
[36:19] One of them has a parent that focuses on, you know, Charlie can't read.
[36:23] Christi Gmyr: Read.
[36:23] Kasey Edwards: You've got to practice reading. If you can't read Charlie, you'll never get a job. Charlie's struggling again or whatever.
[36:29] Christi Gmyr: Right.
[36:29] Kasey Edwards: Charlie goes to his reading class,
[36:32] and just being there is proof that he is failing at life.
[36:37] So he is angry, he's ashamed, he's shut down.
[36:41] He's not learning very much.
[36:43] Then you get Sophie, who's got a parent whose parents who are so focused on her strengths and cause some kids, if you. If their strengths are not measured on report cards or sporting fields, sometimes parents don't know what they are.
[36:58] Let's say Sophie, she's really creative. She can make anything beautiful.
[37:03] But in Sophie's mind, she needs a little bit of extra help with reading.
[37:09] I'm creative. I need help with reading. So when she goes to her reading class, she's open.
[37:14] It's not a comment on her worth.
[37:17] And so she will then become a better reader than Charlie.
[37:21] Christi Gmyr: That's amazing.
[37:22] Yeah. No, thank you for that. That's. That's really helpful. Yeah. And I think that that's going to be. This whole thing, this whole conversation. I feel like it's incredibly valuable.
[37:31] I think it's really going to help so many parents and really get them to be thinking about,
[37:37] you know, trying to think about things differently, because these are things that I know a lot of parents are concerned about. And I do know that it's something that they struggle with a lot.
[37:44] And these are. These are all strategies that they can do. Right. Like, these are.
[37:49] All of them are really.
[37:51] Kasey Edwards: And if you don't know what your child's strengths are, and it's really interesting that a lot of parents don't.
[37:56] And the reason they don't is because we're. We're taught to focus on the weaknesses. If you can't find them,
[38:02] you really need to.
[38:04] In both of our books, our boys book and our girls book, we have a list of strengths. Or you can Google them and find them on the Internet.
[38:11] And then once you identify what your child's strengths are.
[38:14] So they are things that your child naturally is good at, things that when they do it, it makes their heart sing.
[38:20] Notice when your child is doing it and encourage them to do more of it.
[38:27] Christi Gmyr: Yeah.
[38:28] Kasey Edwards: No, you value it. You value the thing that they are naturally good at.
[38:33] Christi Gmyr: Yeah. No, absolutely.
[38:35] Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Well, this is. This has all been so great, you know, and I, again, I feel like you've. In just a short period of time, you've talked about so many things that are just going to be so helpful and, again, achievable.
[38:45] They're very practical. These are things that I really think that anybody can do. And so this has been really wonderful.
[38:51] I just want to, you know, before we kind of wrap up, I just wanted to thank you again for being here. I know that you're busy a lot of, you know, I'm sure you have a lot of other things going on, too, and I really appreciate you taking the time out of the
day to talk to me,
[39:05] to share this knowledge and information, because I really think a lot of people are going to. To benefit from it.
[39:11] Yeah. And. And for the moms who are listening, you know, if any of this resonates, you know, or if you found the things talked about today to be valuable and helpful,
[39:19] as always, you know, please share this podcast with other moms who might be struggling or might be able to use some additional support, because they're all in this together.
